[Podcast] Japanese technology to supercharge human fertility (Part 3)

Japan’s declining birth rate makes global headlines, but most of the developed world will soon be facing the same problem.

The real solution involves a lot of social and economic changes, but as you’ll see, technology has a huge role to play as well.

Today we sit down and talk with Kaz Kishida, CEO of Dioseve, about how their technology promises to transform IVF, the rapid timeline for global rollout, and safety issues and ethnical questions involved.

It’s a great conversation, and I think you’ll enjoy it.

Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan’s most innovative founders and VCs.

I’m Tim Romero and thanks for joining me.

Today we’re going to talk about making babies.

Now, this is not something that startups or startup podcasts normally weighed into, but as you’ll see in this case, it makes a lot of sense.

Today we sit down with Kaz Kishida, co-founder and CEO of Dioseve. And Dioseve has developed a technique for growing mature human eggs from IPS cells. Now, this technology represents a huge step forward for IVF and for human fertility in general.

Some parts of Dioseve’s technology could be in commercial use as soon as next year.

Now, kaz, I dive deep into Dioseve’s technology and the potential good it can do and why some future babies will have three parents. We also cover the tricky ethical and safety issues involved, and we explore exactly why that, in spite of all Japan has going for it. The biotech startup ecosystem here is still facing challenges.

But, you know, Kaz, tells that story much better than I can.

So, let’s get right to the interview.

(Continued from the previous part)

Tim: So, the plan is to build up both reputation and income through the ovarian sales market, and that’ll give you the time and the credibility to build up the newer more challenging and experimental.

Kaz: Right, right. Egg maturation industry and market is huge. We can alternate all IVF procedure. Especially for a developed countries in global, there are 3 million IVF cycles annually, and we can alternate all the IVF procedure. So, the market data is huge.

Tim: That’s fantastic. Are there other startups either here in Japan or overseas working on the same technology or very similar approaches?

Kaz: In Japan, no. We are only company that is working on it. Globally there are a few, but our uniqueness is we already demonstrated much higher efficacy of egg maturation in mice study. So we have a huge potential.

Tim: You know, biotech life sciences in general, the startup ecosystem is far, far more developed in the US than Japan. So, in Japan, there’s less money available on the other hand interesting Biotech startups really stand out. So, is it harder to build a startup like this in Japan than it would be in the US or Europe?

Kaz: I don’t think so. In Japan, there are many opportunities to raise money. In the US there are so many biotech startups, and the competition is very harsh. But in Japan, if we have strong science and strong plan, good for over go to market, VCs have money. So, I think in Japan, we have enough opportunities to raise a good amount of money.

Tim: Okay. That’s great to hear. But I’ve got to push back then. So Japan, for biotech companies, the capital’s available. Japan’s got, I mean, world-class life science research going on at its universities, it’s got some of the strongest pharmaceutical companies in the world. Why is the biotech startup ecosystem so underdeveloped here then?

Kaz: The biggest reason is there was not many big exit, as you said. There are many big pharma in Japan, but not big acquisition.

Tim: That makes sense. So, it limits it to companies like yours that have kind of a step-by-step intermediate revenue generation plan rather than a lot of the drug discovery medical startups in the US, which they’ll raise a hundred million dollars today with the hope of exiting at a billion in 10 years.

Kaz: Yes. Yes.

Tim: And they can’t do that yet in Japan.

Kaz: Right. Let me provide one example. In Boston there was many shared laboratories, and the sponsors are a big pharma, and they are approaching promising biotech startups in super early stage. And after getting data, the pharma approach them again and they start discussion about M&A. But in Japan, no such an event. We need to approach their pharma, but there is not many cases they acquire a biotech company in a good amount of money. So, main strategy should be IPO. But as you know, the market in biotech’s industry is not ideal. And it’s not easy to raise money public offering,

Tim: But also even only having IPO as a target still limits so many. It keeps the ecosystem small.

Kaz: Yes, yes, yes.

Tim: Only a certain type of company can IPO, but companies are acquired for many, many different reasons and at many, many different stages.

Kaz: As you said in Japan, there are many strong science, but the problem is there are not many clinical development people in startup ecosystem. There are many competitive clinical development talents in Japan, but most of them are in big pharma, and not many of them come to startup industry.

Tim: Yes. This is something I think we’re seeing only the beginning of it now in more traditional industries where you get this cross pollination of people who not only leave big enterprises and go to startups, but then go back. Once you get that full cycle, you can really get some innovation happening.

Kaz: Yeah. Yeah. But the situation is improving now.

Tim: I think so too.

Kaz: Yes. Because we can pay a high salary because available capital from VC has been increasing, so we can pay a salary.

Tim: But actually I’ve noticed this new building. There’s an awful lot of small life sciences, startups and offices here. What is this place? So, is this starting to be a biotech hub in the making or?

Kaz: Oh, good question. Yeah, I hope so. Their owner is Mitsui Fudosan, which is the biggest developer in Japan. Their concept is to make biotech hub in several places in Japan. And Shin-kiba is one with them. As you saw, there are many biotech startups, and this is called LinkLab Two. They’re LinkLab one and three and many others in Tokyo and Osaka, they’re working on creating a new system for biotech.

Tim: Well, hopefully that will for the same kind of innovation we saw in Boston.

Kaz: Yes. Yes.

Tim: Do you think Japan is slower to accept new medical treatments? You mentioned before that it’s very conservative on ethical concerns, but do you think Japan is slower to accept new medical treatments and technology than the US or Europe?

Kaz: I think so.

Tim: Is that a bad thing? Is that a good thing?

Kaz: Economically bad thing. Of course, technology innovation will happen after many trial errors, and we can’t try, of course no innovation will happen. So that is a big dilemma in the US many mistakes, but sometimes they can accept it is that required step for innovation. But in Japan, we call the situation their risk symptom. There is no motivation for ethical committee or like such kind of people and for granting approval for that kind of new and technology. Yeah. If we fail, then their approval will be accused.

Tim: That certainly slows down innovation.

Kaz: Yes.

Tim: But that culture is across so much of Japanese society.

Kaz: I think so.

In Part 4, we will examine the cultural and institutional barriers that hinder innovation in Japan, and explore how they might be overcome.

Top photo: Envato

Click here for the Japanese version of the article